Dining across the divide: ‘I worry the England flag is seen as racist – even at the World Cup’

10 hours ago 4

Saima, 25, Birmingham

Occupation Resident doctor and postgraduate researcher

Voting record Labour in two general elections. Describes herself as “socially left, economically slightly more conservative”

Amuse bouche When her university works with researchers from overseas, Saima enjoys telling them about the Tudors. “They’ve got personal drama, worldwide navigation, it’s a nice part of history”

Liz, 77, Birmingham

Occupation Retired teacher

Voting record Liz lived in France for 30 years and was disenfranchised. Since returning six years ago, she has voted Labour and Green

Amuse bouche Liz’s twins were born at 10 to midnight and two minutes past. “The obstetrician asked if I wanted to cheat so they had the same birthday. I said, no way. It’s been great – one day we’d have a party, the next go to a restaurant”

For starters

Liz When I saw Saima I thought: “We’re going to get on.” She was smiley and lovely. We talked about travelling: she’s done Europe, I’ve travelled a lot.

Saima I had an idea about the kind of person I was going to meet, and Liz fitted that in terms of age and race. We’re not so different politically; I think she’s more Green than I am. I was born in Dudley; my grandfather migrated to the UK from Pakistan in the 70s.

Liz The restaurant was so welcoming. I had tacos and a glass of rosé. We both had passion fruit cheesecake.

Saima I had the barbecued lamb shank, which was gorgeous. And a zero-alcohol beer from a local brewery.

The big beef

Liz We talked about all the England flags and union jacks going up. There’s a lot of this in south Birmingham. I don’t want them. I’ve spoken to people in shops around here, they’re concerned that it’s racist.

Saima There’s one road where they had the St George’s cross, Scottish flag and Irish flag, and I quite like that – these are our flags, it feels inclusive. I’ve never felt anything against the union jack and St George’s cross. It’s a mark of our national identity as much as Buckingham Palace.

Liz Where I live, someone was run over by people putting up flags with a cherrypicker. I spoke to some of the people doing it and said we don’t want them; they said that I didn’t support our nation, they were very aggressive. I said it would stop me putting an England flag in my window during the World Cup because everyone would see it as racist.

Saima When Rishi Sunak was PM, Starmer in opposition, we saw the union jack at every press conference – it was a bit on the nose. Everyone knew what they were both doing: it was about immigration, stop the boats. But during Covid, Boris Johnson or Chris Whitty had a union jack by the podium and it was quite nice. Covid was a time when the country united.

Sharing plate

Saima We had a positive discussion about the NHS. It has its problems but we both think that a universal free-access healthcare service is a big plus.

Liz Saima works in hospitals – she’s used to old people, young people, everyone. I’ve got a big family and I’ve taught English. You get used to asking people questions and keeping conversations going.

For afters

Liz I think the triple lock is great because it guarantees my pension. We lived in France, but because our children came to England for university we knew we would come back at some stage, so we paid the contributions to have a state pension here. It’s good for me, and a lot of people rely on that.

Saima I can understand why it’s not been touched, because pensioners are more likely to vote. I agree that if you work hard throughout your life, you deserve state support when you retire. But equally you have to recognise we have a declining birthrate, an increasing number of pensioners and a smaller working‑age population. In the future, it might become a difficult conversation.

Liz with her hand pointing towards Saima who is drinking red wine

Takeaways

Liz It was a lovely evening. Saima gave me a lift home, and took a photo of us in the car. She lives in a suburb of Birmingham where there’s a really lovely Italian restaurant, and I told her if I went I’d give her a ring.

Saima As a pensioner, Liz has a free bus pass but it was 10pm and we both live in south Birmingham – I wasn’t going to let her get the bus home.