Dining across the divide: ‘A lot of English people living in Scotland have a visceral reaction when you say you want independence’’

3 hours ago 2

Geoff, 66, Fife

Occupation Retired corporate executive

Voting record Lib Dem once; otherwise always Labour

Amuse bouche Geoff started to develop a whisky collection and then realised his tastebuds weren’t up to his pretensions. He had 50 bottles at the height of it and now it’s all gone through his liver

Terry, 68, Haddington, East Lothian

Occupation Retired IT executive, spent the last 22 years of his career at Microsoft

Voting record Always Labour until the last two elections, when he’s voted SNP

Amuse bouche Terry is a massive Springsteen fan: he’s seen him 55 times in 12 countries and three continents

For starters

Geoff We had a lot in common. We’ve both lived in the States, both had mixed impressions of existence there, both happy we’re not there now.

Terry Basically, we’re two northern, working-class grammar school boys made good. We had so much in common it was slightly spooky.

Geoff I drank red wine, Terry drank white wine. We had crab bisque, we both had the same main course – halibut – and then a kind of chocolate fondant dessert, with a whisky for me and a dessert wine for him.

Terry The restaurant was a bit fusion – we had an Arbroath smokie that neither of us recognised, lots of small dishes.

Geoff and Terry chatting at a restaurant table

The big beef

Geoff Terry’s pro-Scottish independence, but he’s not a Braveheart, no. He’s more of a “we deserve the right to stay in Europe”. He thinks the EU referendum should have needed a majority in each of the four nations. We’re both regretful that the UK left the EU.

Terry I’d rather live in a Scotland that’s part of Europe than live in a Scotland that’s part of an isolated UK. Geoff is still drawn to the UK, and I said to him: “That feels like an emotional decision, not a pragmatic one.” He’s also more sceptical than me about the detail – what would be the likelihood of getting back into Europe if Scotland voted for independence? The Spanish have said if the Basque region went independent, they’d put steps in place to stop satellite states getting back in. But I don’t want independence for its own sake. In 2014, I would have voted to stay in the UK.

Geoff I would say of the European convention on human rights, I want to be in it. EU, I want to be in it. UN, I want to be in it. Whatever you don’t like, fix it from the inside.

Terry You get a lot of English people living in Scotland – we’re both English – who have a really visceral reaction when you say you want independence, but he wasn’t like that at all.

Sharing plate

Geoff We were most strongly aligned on the fact that we wanted the next generations to have the same opportunities we did. We’re seeing restricted opportunities for our relatives and friends and the people we know, and we feel angst that they don’t have the same rungs to get up the ladder. One thing we discussed is nepotism – if he or I had introduced a son or a nephew at work, there would have been a negative perception from day one. And yet look at Trump.

Terry I honestly believe that the opportunities for the Terrys and Geoffs of today are much less than we had. My dad worked on the docks, my mum worked in a shop, I ended up on the board of Microsoft UK. This is really the first generation where the ethos of “get your head down, work hard, and things will be better” is not working any more. I honestly believe that my exposure to the Everyman theatre in Liverpool, via the school, made me think that anything was possible, really. When Geoff and I were growing up, a Conservative government was taxing at 80%. So there was a reason that the grammar school could afford to take you to the theatre every two weeks.

For afters

Geoff Despite the fact we’re leftwing, we both put our kids through private school. Do we feel good about that? Not necessarily. Would we do that again? Yes, probably.

Terry We both have a second home. I’m not in the camp that thinks these shouldn’t exist, but I think they should be managed and it should be regulated.